Comments on: Sourdough for sissies. http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/ Hot Stuff from King Arthur's Hearth Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:03:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Bob Landry http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-24332 Bob Landry Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:32:02 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-24332 Got my sourdough going well yesterday, and decided to make the sponge for waffles tonight, so I could make them in the morning. Wow! The starter was so glutinous I could barely get it out of the crock and into a measuring cup! So I decided to "thin" it down by reversing the proportion of the "feeding", i.e. 1cup water and 1/2 cup flour. Do you think this will be a problem later on? I would think that the wild yeast will multiply equally in a thin starter as well as in a thick, gluey one. <b>Bob - That is fine to tame your starter by adding more water than flour until you get the right consistency. Just resume to the normal feeding proportions for the next time. Elisabeth @ KAF</b><b> </b> Got my sourdough going well yesterday, and decided to make the sponge for waffles tonight, so I could make them in the morning.
Wow! The starter was so glutinous I could barely get it out of the crock and into a measuring cup! So I decided to “thin” it down by reversing the proportion of the “feeding”, i.e. 1cup water and 1/2 cup flour. Do you think this will be a problem later on? I would think that the wild yeast will multiply equally in a thin starter as well as in a thick, gluey one.

Bob - That is fine to tame your starter by adding more water than flour until you get the right consistency. Just resume to the normal feeding proportions for the next time. Elisabeth @ KAF

]]> By: John D http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-24098 John D Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:01:57 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-24098 Help! I bought a King Arthur sourdough starter a few months ago and I've been feeding it with King Arthur flour. It's happy, it's active, it froths. Whenever I try to make anything other than pancakes with it, I have a gloppy disaster on my hands. Literally! I've been trying the extra-tangy sourdough recipe that came with the starter. After the four hours per-ferment, the twelve hours in the refrigerator, and the five-hour rise, I inevitably have glop. A couple times, I actually got some under-risen loaves. Usually, I get dough that is too sticky to form into loaves, or to do anything else with. Is my sourdough too acidic and breaking down the gluten? I even tried sweetening my sourdough by knocking it down to 4 ounces and adding 4 ounces each of water and flour (I weigh everything). I'd like to start making sourdough and stop making big gloppy messes that make my garbage can smell wondrously yeasty. <strong>Could be your sourdough is extra-acidic and you're letting everything rise too long; acid eventually does break down gluten. Try our <a href="http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/rustic-sourdough-bread-recipe" rel="nofollow">Rustic Sourdough </a>recipe, mild version; that should take you out of the realm of glop and back into safer territory. Call our Baker's Hotline, 802-649-3717, for more suggesitons, OK? Good luck - PJH</strong> Help! I bought a King Arthur sourdough starter a few months ago and I’ve been feeding it with King Arthur flour. It’s happy, it’s active, it froths.

Whenever I try to make anything other than pancakes with it, I have a gloppy disaster on my hands. Literally!

I’ve been trying the extra-tangy sourdough recipe that came with the starter. After the four hours per-ferment, the twelve hours in the refrigerator, and the five-hour rise, I inevitably have glop.

A couple times, I actually got some under-risen loaves. Usually, I get dough that is too sticky to form into loaves, or to do anything else with. Is my sourdough too acidic and breaking down the gluten? I even tried sweetening my sourdough by knocking it down to 4 ounces and adding 4 ounces each of water and flour (I weigh everything).

I’d like to start making sourdough and stop making big gloppy messes that make my garbage can smell wondrously yeasty.

Could be your sourdough is extra-acidic and you’re letting everything rise too long; acid eventually does break down gluten. Try our Rustic Sourdough recipe, mild version; that should take you out of the realm of glop and back into safer territory. Call our Baker’s Hotline, 802-649-3717, for more suggesitons, OK? Good luck - PJH

]]> By: Ron http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-23792 Ron Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:52:10 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-23792 PJ - While babysitting my grandson, I was reading through my daughter's copy of the KA All Purpose Baking Book. I was glad to see that you were such a driving force for it. I looked at the sourdough waffle recipe, and the weights didn't seem right. It said a cup of starter was 16 oz, but I have been using 8 oz as a weight. It also seems to say the buttermilk weight was different than what was shown in the front of the book. Was that corrected later? Also, the section on sourdough starter indicates using 8 oz of flour and 8 oz of water when feeding, different than we do now. Is the one I saw an older edition and corrections have been made? Did you change the ratios for starters after the book was written etc. I didn't get a chance to look at it for long, but know what I want for Christmas now. Thanks - Ron <strong>Ron, there were indeed some corrections made in subsequent printings. I think your best bet is to call our customer service folks, 800-827-6836, and ask for the "errata sheet" that goes with the KA Baker's Companion cookbook. In the meantime, I'll take a look at it, too, see if it includes what you mention above. Thanks for your kind words - and thanks for your eagle-eyed input! PJH</strong> <strong>Hi again, Ron - I found out the sourdough waffle corrections are on an errata sheet, available simply by calling customer service at 800-827-6836. It should be 2 cups (16 ounces) buttermilk and 1 cup (8 ounces) starter. You can feed your starter either way you like - 1 cup to 1 cup by volume, or equal parts by weight. You'll eventually get a thinner starter if you feed using the volume method. I prefer the 1/2 cup (4 ounces) water/1 cup (4 ounces) flour feeding. Hope this helps - PJH</strong> PJ - While babysitting my grandson, I was reading through my daughter’s copy of the KA All Purpose Baking Book. I was glad to see that you were such a driving force for it. I looked at the sourdough waffle recipe, and the weights didn’t seem right. It said a cup of starter was 16 oz, but I have been using 8 oz as a weight. It also seems to say the buttermilk weight was different than what was shown in the front of the book. Was that corrected later? Also, the section on sourdough starter indicates using 8 oz of flour and 8 oz of water when feeding, different than we do now. Is the one I saw an older edition and corrections have been made? Did you change the ratios for starters after the book was written etc. I didn’t get a chance to look at it for long, but know what I want for Christmas now. Thanks - Ron

Ron, there were indeed some corrections made in subsequent printings. I think your best bet is to call our customer service folks, 800-827-6836, and ask for the “errata sheet” that goes with the KA Baker’s Companion cookbook. In the meantime, I’ll take a look at it, too, see if it includes what you mention above. Thanks for your kind words - and thanks for your eagle-eyed input! PJH

Hi again, Ron - I found out the sourdough waffle corrections are on an errata sheet, available simply by calling customer service at 800-827-6836. It should be 2 cups (16 ounces) buttermilk and 1 cup (8 ounces) starter. You can feed your starter either way you like - 1 cup to 1 cup by volume, or equal parts by weight. You’ll eventually get a thinner starter if you feed using the volume method. I prefer the 1/2 cup (4 ounces) water/1 cup (4 ounces) flour feeding. Hope this helps - PJH

]]> By: Ron http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-23226 Ron Sat, 07 Nov 2009 05:28:47 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-23226 PJ - I've been baking all the bread for two families these days, and all of it is sourdough of some kind. Although I am still doing the KA baguette recipe from the class with a half sourdough starter poolish, I have been working on the whole wheat rustic sourdough every week also. I have found 2/3 all purpose and 1/3 whole wheat has given me the right consistency crust and inside. Last night I made a fed starter with 12 oz of unfed starter, 6 oz flour and 6 oz water, basically a triple recipe. Tonight I mixed all the water with the starter, mixed the dry ingredients in a separate bowl first so the flours were blended, added to the starter etc. I made 2 loaves in 4x8 pans, 2 round hearth loaves, and 2 baguettes from this recipe. I do the baguettes first in the hotter oven for 22 minutes, steaming the 1st 5 minutes, then the 4 loaves(sprayed and sliced) in the 425 oven. Baguette crust was great, loaves are perfect. I have been making larger batches with several different shapes from the same dough for a while now, and it has been lots of fun. By the way, thanks for the sourdough pizza crust recipe in the email today. I am anxious to try it, especially because it uses unfed starter, which I have plenty of. I am still taking all my removed starter and creating some to give away. Spread the joy as they say. I think my next thing will be to work on a sourdough rye or pumpernickel. I'm back in the banter, and looking forward to a long baking winter. Ron <strong>Welcome back, Ron - you sound like you're well on the way to becoming a "breadie;" - in fact, you're probably already there. Fun, isn't it? And the winters don't seem nearly as long when you can look forward to lighting the oven and getting your hands into some dough... PJH </strong> PJ - I’ve been baking all the bread for two families these days, and all of it is sourdough of some kind. Although I am still doing the KA baguette recipe from the class with a half sourdough starter poolish, I have been working on the whole wheat rustic sourdough every week also. I have found 2/3 all purpose and 1/3 whole wheat has given me the right consistency crust and inside.
Last night I made a fed starter with 12 oz of unfed starter, 6 oz flour and 6 oz water, basically a triple recipe. Tonight I mixed all the water with the starter, mixed the dry ingredients in a separate bowl first so the flours were blended, added to the starter etc. I made 2 loaves in 4×8 pans, 2 round hearth loaves, and 2 baguettes from this recipe. I do the baguettes first in the hotter oven for 22 minutes, steaming the 1st 5 minutes, then the 4 loaves(sprayed and sliced) in the 425 oven. Baguette crust was great, loaves are perfect. I have been making larger batches with several different shapes from the same dough for a while now, and it has been lots of fun.
By the way, thanks for the sourdough pizza crust recipe in the email today. I am anxious to try it, especially because it uses unfed starter, which I have plenty of. I am still taking all my removed starter and creating some to give away. Spread the joy as they say.
I think my next thing will be to work on a sourdough rye or pumpernickel. I’m back in the banter, and looking forward to a long baking winter. Ron

Welcome back, Ron - you sound like you’re well on the way to becoming a “breadie;” - in fact, you’re probably already there. Fun, isn’t it? And the winters don’t seem nearly as long when you can look forward to lighting the oven and getting your hands into some dough… PJH

]]> By: Colleen http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-22082 Colleen Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:37:05 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-22082 Hi PJ- Thanks again for a wonderful blog! I had a neighbor give me an Amish Friendship Bread starter and recipe a few weeks ago. I just got around to baking it today, and I have to say I'm really disappointed. I feel like I just wasted perfectly good starter to make a sweet quick bread. So, I searched your site and came up with a recipe for real sourdough BREAD. The kind where the yeast actually does the work of rising. Thanks for being such a great resource, I knew I could count on you! Hi PJ- Thanks again for a wonderful blog! I had a neighbor give me an Amish Friendship Bread starter and recipe a few weeks ago. I just got around to baking it today, and I have to say I’m really disappointed. I feel like I just wasted perfectly good starter to make a sweet quick bread. So, I searched your site and came up with a recipe for real sourdough BREAD. The kind where the yeast actually does the work of rising. Thanks for being such a great resource, I knew I could count on you!

]]> By: cheryl http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-22000 cheryl Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:10:19 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-22000 Hi! I was wondering if I used a different flour, say the Italian flour you guys sell (I also have the French, Artisan, Sir Lancelot, AP, etc....) would the starter take on a different flavor? I also read that when you purchase a sourdough starter that after a little time it will live off of the organisms in my locale, not the original ones sent with the starter? Does that make sense? I may have worded that wrong. Thanks! <strong>Exactly right, Cheryl - the sourdough will take on characteristics of where you live. San Francisco sourdough can really only be enjoyed in San Francisco. But only YOU and your friends and family can enjoy sourdough chez Cheryl. :) As for flour, it's not a good idea to substitute one for another unless they have the same or very similar protein levels (or unless you're ready to compensate for their different protein levels by adjusting the liquid in the recipe). For example, Italian flour has a much lower protein level than all-purpose; it's designed for pizza, pasta, breadsticks, and other flat breads, not high-rising loaves. Lancelot would be fine, but you'd have to add a lot more water. Artisan and French would be quite similar to AP, and you might try substituting one of them. Experiment - enjoy! PJH</strong> Hi!
I was wondering if I used a different flour, say the Italian flour you guys sell (I also have the French, Artisan, Sir Lancelot, AP, etc….) would the starter take on a different flavor? I also read that when you purchase a sourdough starter that after a little time it will live off of the organisms in my locale, not the original ones sent with the starter? Does that make sense? I may have worded that wrong. Thanks!

Exactly right, Cheryl - the sourdough will take on characteristics of where you live. San Francisco sourdough can really only be enjoyed in San Francisco. But only YOU and your friends and family can enjoy sourdough chez Cheryl. :) As for flour, it’s not a good idea to substitute one for another unless they have the same or very similar protein levels (or unless you’re ready to compensate for their different protein levels by adjusting the liquid in the recipe). For example, Italian flour has a much lower protein level than all-purpose; it’s designed for pizza, pasta, breadsticks, and other flat breads, not high-rising loaves. Lancelot would be fine, but you’d have to add a lot more water. Artisan and French would be quite similar to AP, and you might try substituting one of them. Experiment - enjoy! PJH

]]> By: Dlited http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21824 Dlited Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:35:47 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21824 Love your sourdough recipes! I'm making the Rustic Sourdough bread right now, but as I was getting going this morning, I noticed something... my sourdough jar is getting a bit, hmm, crusty? That is, there is a bunch of dried sourdough starter along the sides of the jar and around the rim. Is this a health hazard? If so, how often should I clean the jar? The starter is working so well these days, I hate to mess with it without knowing what I'm doing. Thanks! <strong>Great question! The starter jar should be cleaned with hot soapy water and triple rinsed each week when the starter gets its feeding. This eliminates any possibilities of mold and other nasties growing. ~ MaryJane </strong> <strong>I'm lazy, and only feed my starter every few months; thus I only clean the jar every few months. Seems to be just fine.... But if you're a worrier, you'd probably want to feed/clean more often, as MJ says - PJH</strong> Love your sourdough recipes! I’m making the Rustic Sourdough bread right now, but as I was getting going this morning, I noticed something… my sourdough jar is getting a bit, hmm, crusty? That is, there is a bunch of dried sourdough starter along the sides of the jar and around the rim. Is this a health hazard? If so, how often should I clean the jar? The starter is working so well these days, I hate to mess with it without knowing what I’m doing. Thanks!
Great question! The starter jar should be cleaned with hot soapy water and triple rinsed each week when the starter gets its feeding. This eliminates any possibilities of mold and other nasties growing. ~ MaryJane

I’m lazy, and only feed my starter every few months; thus I only clean the jar every few months. Seems to be just fine…. But if you’re a worrier, you’d probably want to feed/clean more often, as MJ says - PJH

]]> By: SAM http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21708 SAM Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:52:35 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21708 The Tangy SD I baked this morning is excellent. It has that classic SD smell, it's soft & chewy inside, and it has that crisp but chewy crust I love so much... Thank you for solving my SD problems and providing me with recipes & techniques that actually work! The Tangy SD I baked this morning is excellent. It has that classic SD smell, it’s soft & chewy inside, and it has that crisp but chewy crust I love so much… Thank you for solving my SD problems and providing me with recipes & techniques that actually work!

]]> By: SAM http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21676 SAM Sun, 11 Oct 2009 02:29:25 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21676 WOW! I've ben experimenting with sourdough for about a year now, trying to bake that seemingly elusive DECENT loaf! lol My mother in law bakes SD Bread that ROCKS... she gave me the recipe she SAYS she uses but I have never been able to come even close to duplicating the texture of her chewy, crispy crust or the flavor of the soft, chewy crumb. I tried several different recipes from other cookbooks and still couldn't make anything but mediocre loaves that were "good enough" if toasted and slathered in butter and jellies. I nearly gave up. In fact, for awhile I did give up. I didn't bake for several months. Then it hit me: the recipe she gave me COULD NOT POSSIBLY be the recipe she actually uses, bless her heart! LOL There's just no way that I'm just THAT BAD at sourdough!!! Then last week I stumbled onto your website (I think it was the SD Chocolate Cake that got my attention) I made that cake immediately - I didn't have time or enough confectioners sugar to make your frosting recipe but the cake itself was AMAZING! It became a favorite at my house with one bite! I used your Rustic SD recipe today. The first two loaves are in the fridge getting nice and tangy for baking tomorrow. I followed the recipe except for adding 2 cups of my 60 day old homemade starter that I now maintain according to your instructions. While mixing my dough, I ended up adding a bit more water as it was a bit too dry. It rised nicely, the dough itself smells wonderful, the loaves are pretty. The recipe was very easy to follow. I will have to let you know how the finished product turns out tomorrow after I bake. In the mean time, I made a second batch using only one cup of starter and probably about 4 1/3 cups of flour. Again, my dough rised up beautifully. I baked it as directed and I've gotta tell you, I suspect my mother in law found this website months ago the Rustic SD recipe is how she's been making such fabulous bread because the bread I baked today was REALLY good. I can hardly wait until tomorrow so we can try the Tangy SD version. WOW! I’ve ben experimenting with sourdough for about a year now, trying to bake that seemingly elusive DECENT loaf! lol My mother in law bakes SD Bread that ROCKS… she gave me the recipe she SAYS she uses but I have never been able to come even close to duplicating the texture of her chewy, crispy crust or the flavor of the soft, chewy crumb. I tried several different recipes from other cookbooks and still couldn’t make anything but mediocre loaves that were “good enough” if toasted and slathered in butter and jellies. I nearly gave up. In fact, for awhile I did give up. I didn’t bake for several months. Then it hit me: the recipe she gave me COULD NOT POSSIBLY be the recipe she actually uses, bless her heart! LOL There’s just no way that I’m just THAT BAD at sourdough!!!

Then last week I stumbled onto your website (I think it was the SD Chocolate Cake that got my attention) I made that cake immediately - I didn’t have time or enough confectioners sugar to make your frosting recipe but the cake itself was AMAZING! It became a favorite at my house with one bite!

I used your Rustic SD recipe today. The first two loaves are in the fridge getting nice and tangy for baking tomorrow. I followed the recipe except for adding 2 cups of my 60 day old homemade starter that I now maintain according to your instructions.
While mixing my dough, I ended up adding a bit more water as it was a bit too dry. It rised nicely, the dough itself smells wonderful, the loaves are pretty. The recipe was very easy to follow. I will have to let you know how the finished product turns out tomorrow after I bake.

In the mean time, I made a second batch using only one cup of starter and probably about 4 1/3 cups of flour. Again, my dough rised up beautifully. I baked it as directed and I’ve gotta tell you, I suspect my mother in law found this website months ago the Rustic SD recipe is how she’s been making such fabulous bread because the bread I baked today was REALLY good. I can hardly wait until tomorrow so we can try the Tangy SD version.

]]> By: Stan http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21608 Stan Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:46:52 +0000 http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2008/09/10/sourdough-for-sissies/#comment-21608 I can't seem to get the hang of using a Lame. I seem to tear insted of cutting. Stan <strong>Stan, very quick, very assertive, yet still controlled. If you gl slow at all - you're sunk. Have you watched <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlpp5Xmslb8&feature=channel_page" rel="nofollow">our bakers using their lames</a> on baguettes? Take a look at our video - it may help you if you see the movement. PJH</strong> I can’t seem to get the hang of using a Lame. I seem to tear insted of cutting.

Stan

Stan, very quick, very assertive, yet still controlled. If you gl slow at all - you’re sunk. Have you watched our bakers using their lames on baguettes? Take a look at our video - it may help you if you see the movement. PJH

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